Rocket woes delay China's space ambitions

This is the Space Cowboys podcast. I forget the number, but it's the 3rd of July edition. Hi, Juri, you're my guest today. Hi, Herbert. Thijs is off to some faraway country. Good for him. In Asia. And he'll probably hear this, but he's not joining us today. Okay, let's just discuss a whole bunch of news items that we have accumulated, okay? Right, yeah, because there's been so much going on in the last few weeks. For instance, on the 2nd of July, for us right now, that's yesterday, the Orion launch abort system was tested and it was a success. Tell me about it. Yeah, so this was a critical test in the whole Orion or Artemis program. What they did yesterday is test the launch abort system. The launch abort system is a safety measure that helps push away the capsule, the capsule aboard the SLS Orion stack. And it helps to make sure that once something goes completely wrong with the launch, that the astronauts can get away safely. So what they did yesterday is they launched a mock-up of the Orion capsule with the launch abort system on top of it. They put it on some old retired missile, just to make sure that it... A throwaway rocket. It was basically a throwaway rocket, but it worked. And it got off the launch pad quite quickly. It did. It did. It looked, well, like the real thing. Yeah, but they were afraid that it would go into the sky a bit too quickly. So they added about 35 tons of extra weight to make sure that it would be weighed down. Otherwise, it would just go off the launch pad a bit too sporty. Which escaped velocity. Escaped velocity. But what they did... They were able to complete the test. So at around 12 or 13 kilometers, the average cruising altitude of a jet airliner, the launch abort system triggered. And you could clearly see the capsule with the launch abort system pulling away from the rocket. But not only that, if I may interrupt you. They also simulated stuff going wrong. Because the whole rocket turned upside down and started on its way back. To the ground. So it was really a disaster simulation. Exactly. Because this kind of launch abort system is only triggered when something completely goes wrong with the rocket. Okay. So that was needed for the test. Yeah. And we've seen, especially recently, how important a launch abort system is. Because if you remember back in October, October 2018, we had the launch of a Soyuz capsule from Kazakhstan. Yeah. And things went wrong midway during the flight. And that also triggered the launch abort system on the Soyuz capsule, which is basically the same kind of technique that we use for the Orion capsule. And it made sure that the astronauts were able to get away from the failing rocket safely and that they were able to land. So it really saved their lives. It saved their lives. And after the test yesterday, Nick Haig, one of the astronauts on board the failed Soyuz flight, he tweeted about the importance... the importance of this test and the importance of a launch escape system. So it really shows. This is an important... It's no joke, guys. No, this is really an important test. And I think it's one of the last tests before the actual flight of SLS and Orion somewhere next year. Okay. How's that going? Difficult, as usual. Yeah. Delays, delays. Yeah, delays, delays, delays. I mean, the whole program, I think Orion, so the capsule, cost about $16 million. And the rocket itself, SLS, $14 billion. Billion. Billion. We're not using millions. No, no, no, no, no. And we're still facing delays. So it's currently the first flight of Artemis, Artemis 1, which is the SLS and the Orion capsule without astronauts. It's now targeted for the end of 2020. Okay. And Artemis, to be sure, is the fancy name for the Moon Mars project. It's Apollo reboot. Yeah. Not because it's easy, but because it's hard. Yeah, exactly. And it's aimed for the end of 2020, but we've already heard some rumors about it being delayed into 2021. And, of course, the follow-up flights, the first human flight of SLS Orion is now aimed for somewhere after that. And the whole Moon landing in 2024, that's also dependent on 2020. So it's going to be $30 billion extra on top of the current budget. So it is a troublesome program. Yeah. And it will stay that way, I guess. Yeah. Okay. All right. So that's one. Next up is the Titan drone. We're going to fly on Titan, aren't we? Yes. I think it's one of the coolest missions. As long as this goes according to schedule and all that. But it's the plan. Yeah, exactly. It was presented the other week. Yeah, it is. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. NASA presented their newest Titan mission. It's called Dragonfly. And they're aiming for a launch in 2026 with a landing on Titan in 2034. So it's going to take some patience. It's going to take quite a while to reach Titan. 2034. Yeah. Okay. Okay. 15 years from now. 15 years from now. And what they're going to launch is a drone. A drone that's going to fly on Titan. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, but I suppose something is going to land first and then launch the drone, right? No, it's going to go into the atmosphere. It's going to dive into the atmosphere as a drone. As a drone and then land on the surface of Titan. And then it's going to perform a number of hops from one place to another. It's powered by a radioisotope reactor, so it's nuclear powered. Just like Pluto missions and all that. Exactly. And they're building it to be able to cover about 180 kilometers or about, I think, 20 hops. So it's going to hop from one place to another place, do some analysis of the surface that it's on, and then hop to another place a few kilometers away, do some other analysis. So it's going to fly around on Titan. Wow. So it's basically a flying rover, a flying Mars rover. I mean, with a rover, you can only... Well, cover distances of kilometers. With this, you can cover distances of tens of kilometers. That's beautiful. Yeah. And some time ago, not too long ago, there was talk about a Mars helicopter. And that was very interesting because the atmosphere of Mars is very thin. And you really need some technology to get anything flying using a rotor. So how is that on Titan? Well, on Titan, flying is actually quite a lot easier because on Titan, you have an atmosphere that's... It's four times denser than on Earth. Yeah. And you have only one-seventh of the gravity on Earth. So it's going to be easy. So, yeah. So one of the scientists, lead scientists for the Dragonfly mission said that if you strap on wings as a human, you would be able to fly on Titan because of the dense atmosphere and the tenuous gravity. Just the way Leonardo pictured it ages ago. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So making sure that you have a drone that can actually fly is easier than on Earth. And a lot... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot easier than on Mars. It's going to be fun. I can't wait until 2034. Oh, it's going to take such a long time. I hope I'm still alive then. Yeah. Yeah. It's 15 years from now. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else about this one? Well, maybe it's interesting to see that the whole rover carries a whole... Or the... Not a rover. It's the whole drone is going to carry a lot of scientific instruments. So it's going to carry cameras, of course. It's easy to fly. You can carry some stuff. Drills. Reasonable. Yeah. Seismic and weather sensors, spectrometers. And it's going to analyze the composition of Titan's rocks to make sure that we understand what Titan is made of. Yeah. And just to be sure it's going to be an unmanned thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Okay. Okay. But all right. Then another news item from a short while ago. Elon Musk launched 60 of his Starlink satellites. And now it has come to light that five of them have failed. No, three. Three. Three. Yeah. But it's still way too many because it's 5%. And if you translate that to the final number that they're aiming for being 12,000, that would be 600 failed satellites in orbit. Yeah. So what do you think of that? I think of space debris as the first problem. That's right. Yeah. Because these satellites, I think they're unresponsive right now. They weren't able to raise them into higher orbits. So they're lingering in low Earth orbit somewhere. And low Earth orbit is already very busy these days. So the first thing that comes to mind is space debris. How to make sure that all these failed satellites don't clog up low Earth orbit. And I seem to remember that these three failed Starlink satellites are going to fall back to Earth. And they're going to fall back to Earth in not too long a time. Yeah. Probably. Do you know by heart how much time this will take? I think that that's always dependent on the solar activity. Because solar activity makes the atmosphere contract or expand. And depending on how much it is contracted or expanded, that speeds up or delays the process of making sure that satellites come back to Earth. Yeah. But has anything been made public? Is there anything public about the cause of this? No. I mean... We don't know. SpaceX is very tight-lipped about Starlink up until now. So we don't really know yet. But are they very much red-faced? No. Because Elon Musk said before launching this first batch of Starlink satellites that he was expecting a number of them to fail. Not only in raising their orbit, but also in sending back data. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was already a caveat. We haven't even reached that part, sending back data. No. We haven't seen anything about latency or speed or coverage of the Earth. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we'll have to wait and see. I think we have to wait and see until the first 6 to 12 launches of Starlink. So from now on, every few months, they'll launch another batch of 60 satellites. Any information about when the next one will be? Yes, September. September. September. September. The rumors are that... The next batch is going to be launched in September. Okay. Well, that's closer than 2034. Yeah. But the problem is they have to launch a number of satellites before a certain date or their license with the FCC will... Ah. So they're in a hurry. There's a stick. Yeah. As opposed to a carrot. Exactly. They have to make sure that they launch enough satellites. Okay. So we'll wait for that one then. Yeah. Good. Good. Next up is China. What's going on in China? They have problems with their launcher. It's quiet when dealing with China. It's quiet in China. In the last few years, we saw an increasing amount of launches from China. We saw some very interesting plans for the future. But it's been quiet in the last few months. And I think that has to do with two problems. On the one hand, we had a launch failure of a regular Changcheng. It was a rocket back in May. It was an upper stage that failed. And that always has some impact on the backlog of launches that we're dealing with. So that never helps. But the main problem is their completely new Changcheng-5 rocket. It's one of the biggest rockets that was ever built. It has an enormous lift capacity. And it's a completely new rocket for China. They launched the first two rockets back a few years ago. And they're still in the process of launching. And their most recent launch, that was in July 2017, if I'm correct, failed. The upper stage failed. And they tried to test the upper stage rocket or the upper stage rocket engine. But all their recent tests have failed. And there are rumors that their most recent test at the end of April also failed. So somehow they're in a spot where they're unable to fix the actual problem with the upper stage of the Changcheng-5. That's a rare thing. I mean, something failing is not rare in space. No. It happens all the time. Yeah. But then you go and fix things and mostly you get stuff working again. Yeah. Chinese are even failing at that. Apparently. Apparently. Because it's taking quite a long time for them to fix this problem. And I mean, the whole rocket engine for the upper stage of the Changcheng-5, it's the YF-77. Look it up. It's a very interesting concept. Google that. But the main problem is in the turbopump. So the turbopump that makes sure that enough fuel ends up in the rocket chamber. And the whole rocket engine is a cryogenic rocket engine. And there are not a lot of cryogenic rocket engines in the world. That burns liquid fuel. Yeah. It burns liquid oxygen and hydrogen. Super cooled. Very effective. But very hard to master. So we only have a few of those upper stages in the world. The US has them. Russia has them. And Europe has them. And I think India is also very close to mastering the whole cryogenic upper stage. No, they already mastered it. Sorry. Yeah. They already mastered it. But it's very recently. And it's a very hard technique to master. So they're running into these problems. And normally that wouldn't be such a big of a problem. But for China it is. Because the whole future of the world is in the hands of the Chinese. Yeah. So the whole future of their manned space program, of their solar exploration program, is dependent on the success of the Chang'e 5. Yeah. So their next moon missions, Chang'e 5 and 6, the moon missions that will return lunar rocks back to the earth, they need to be launched on the Chang'e 5 because they're so heavy, they need a heavy lift rocket. The Mars missions that are planned for the next few years from China are also dependent on the Chang'e 5. And last but not least, the space station, the Chinese space station, the modules that will make up the Chinese space station, they're also to be launched on the Chang'e 5. So you see there's a pattern here. All the important parts of the Chinese rocket program, they are dependent on the Chang'e 5. So it is a big problem. Yeah. And we're now seeing that these missions to the moon, to Mars and the space station, they're going to be launched on the Chang'e 5. And the space station missions are postponed indefinitely until they have fixed the problems with their Chang'e 5 rocket. Very embarrassing. Yeah. That's why you don't hear a lot about it. The Chinese are good at celebrating success. So we heard a lot about Yutu 2, the lunar rover that was launched at the end of 2018 and landed on the moon. And after that, it's been quite quiet. Yeah. But still, I believe NASA would... Yeah. I think NASA would be much more embarrassed than the Chinese are right now because NASA is used to doing a lot of PR stuff and would have a lot to explain even by shutting up. Yeah. Well, okay, you know if the Chinese are silent, there's something going on, but they have every right to be silent. That's a lot easier for them than it would be for Americans. Silence from the Chinese rockets. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that the Chinese space program is always a bad sign. Especially the last time that they had a launch failure, which was in May. You see that they announced that the launch has taken place, but then it takes hours and hours before you hear something again. Anything. And every time the launch is a success, press releases will start rolling out. Sure. Yeah. But now we didn't hear anything for hours. And then you know that something's wrong. And then it takes a while before the final conversation. Yeah. Yeah. And then the final confirmation is out. But it's always silence is a bad sign. So when you don't hear anything about something going on in the Chinese space program, you know that they've hit... Trouble. Trouble. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's it, right? We'll wait for more news from them or more silence. Yeah. I do hope that they can fix these problems with the Changcheng-5 because there's so many interesting missions lined up from China and they're all dependent. I would love to see Chinese astronauts doing spectacular stuff. Exactly. Land on the moon. And the whole Chinese space station, the interesting thing is that they're actively looking for collaborations, not only with experiments from the rest of the world, but also looking for collaborations with space agencies. So they've invited European astronauts to train with them and possibly also visit their space stations once it's up there. Same goes for the Indian space station. The Indian space program. They've also invited them to come along. So it's not just that it's a Chinese party. Other nations are involved as well and are invited as well. So yeah, it is something that I think we should all be looking forward to. We do. Yeah. Okay. Let's look at India because they do have success. India has a completely different story. They're doing quite well actually. The interesting thing is that... Yeah. The interesting thing is that in a week, a week from now, so the 14th of July, they are going to launch their Chandrayaan-2 lunar rover. They're going to the moon. They are. Unmanned, right? Unmanned. Yeah. So what they're going to do is they're going to launch an orbiter, a lander and a rover on the 14th of July. And they're going to aim for the South Pole or at least somewhere in the region of the South Pole of the moon. And what they're going to do there? The rover is going to... Yeah. They're going to do some analysis of the composition of the rocks over there. So it mainly contains... Let's see. Those are the... It has a spectroscope. Yeah. Spectroscope. So it's going to analyze the composition of the lunar surface over there. Looking for water perhaps? Maybe, but also looking for radiation and what the actual soil is made of. So water could be an interesting thing because we've heard signs of... Yeah. ...signs of water being around in the lunar South Pole. Yeah. So yes, they're going to look for that. But it's of course a very interesting mission for India because they're going to do the same thing that China did a few years ago with Chang'e 3 and U2. And we know that there is a little bit of a space race going on in Asia between India and... Okay. Between those two? Yeah. And... So they're actually looking more at each other than for instance at the United States? Yes. Yes. You also see it in the manned space program for India. They're aiming for their own manned capsule. They're aiming for their own manned program with the first flight planned for 2021. So that's quite fast. 2021? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And they've recently... So last week they've unveiled their first plans for an Indian space station that should be up there before the end of 2030. So soon we'll be... So soon we'll have an American space station. Well, that's an international space station to be fair. Chinese one. An Indian one. They could be busy. And we have a lunar gateway that's also coming online in the next 10 years if all goes well. Lots of spectacular stuff going on. But tell me more about... They have this manned space program. Are they also looking at putting people on the moon? Well, of course there are PowerPoint presentations where... They have their plans. But right now they're mainly focusing on making sure that the first... Even goes up. What do they call their... Veomanauts. Veomanauts. That's what they call their astronauts. Oh, wow. Astronauts not good enough. No, no, no. Every nation has to... It's a new kind of nauts. So you have astronauts, we have cosmonauts, we have taikonauts, and then we have Veomanauts for India. Beautiful. Yeah. And their main focus is on making sure that they reach their future. Yeah. And they reach their first milestone, their first flight of their manned space program in 2021. That's their first step. But considering the trouble that the Chinese are having right now, maybe it's probable that the Indians are going to win this particular race. Yeah, but the Chinese are in the lead right now. They've had their... They still are. They've had their manned space flight since the first half of... Since 2008. Since 2003, when their first taikonaut launched. They've had their first two space stations, Tiangong-1 and Tiangong-2. They've already had their landing on the moon. They have had their rover on the moon. So they're in the lead right now. You see India trying to catch up with China in this regard. Okay. Okay, good. Anything else about India? No. I think... I'm really looking forward to the launch of Chandrayaan-2. And I've noticed... I've seen that they're actively working on Chandrayaan-3, a follow-up mission that's going to be in cooperation with Japan. Okay. But the Chandrayaan-2, I'm trying to imitate your beautiful pronunciation, is going on the 14th of July, according to schedule. Yeah. All right. We'll keep that in mind. Next up is Russia. Yeah. How about Russia? Russia. Russia. And in the last decades, they're launching one of their more interesting missions. It's Spectre-RG. You mean the others were dull so far? It's mainly military missions. And of course, they have their human program, but mostly it's military and communications and communications satellites. But now they're launching Spectre-RG. What's that then? It's an observatory. It's a high energy observatory aiming for observatory in X-ray. Okay. So that's... So you're talking astronomy now? Yeah. Astronomy. It's an astronomical observatory going for a Lagranian point. So somewhere between the moon and the earth where there's no gravitational pull from either of those two celestial bodies. Stable points. Stable points. Yeah. And it's one of the biggest missions in the last few decades from Russia. It's actually been quite long in the making. The first plans for a Spectre-RG date back to the 1980s. It's... I'm just kidding. It's the Soviet Union. That's some delay. That's some delay. And the first plans for a launch of Spectre-RG were in 1993. But of course, things happened. Soviet Union broke up. Oh yeah, I'm sure. Budgets were slashed and the whole mission was incredibly underfunded for years. Literally for years. So nothing happened. They switched out a lot of the instruments. They switched out a lot of the techniques that they were going to use. Yeah. And they were going to use. So every time they had to restart the whole process. So it took ages and hardly any progress was made. But then in 2005, they decided to resurrect the whole idea of Spectre-RG. They partnered with Germany. So Germany provides one of the most important instruments on the observatory. But then still it took quite a long time. So from the Russian side, the funds... It was incredibly underfunded as well. Because they were dealing with some serious economic problems in Russia. And the first thing that they cut is the astronomical, or at least the budget for astronomy over there. So it took a while, more delays, more switches of instruments, more switches of the technique that they were using. And then finally after, well, 15 years almost now. Yeah. Yeah. So the entire observatory is ready to be launched. So they're going to launch it on the 12th of July. And then it's going to perform an all-sky survey of the entire universe. And they're going to look for the bigger galaxies, the bigger clusters. Also it's going to look for dark energy, dark matter. Okay. Yeah. Also an interesting one. Yes. And their aim is to perform an all-sky survey in four years to find out where... Where high energy is coming from in the universe. And it's a follow-up to the Rosat mission. A Rosat mission was a German mission from the beginning of the 1990s. They did quite a lot of work then. And this is an even more, even better instrument, hoping to find more high energy physics in the universe. Okay. So on the 12th of July, prayers will be said in Russia, Germany as well. It's going to launch on a proton rocket, a Russian rocket. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Yeah. Let's keep our fingers crossed because the track record is not that good for the proton in the last few years. It's not? Okay. So let's keep our fingers crossed. In that case, was it a good idea to choose this rocket? Any particular reason why they would? Costs. Oh, yeah. It is cheaper. I mean, otherwise you'd have to launch it on an Ariane 5 or an Atlas 5 or an American rocket. And I don't think that they had the funds or the political will to do that. Wow. That would be quite a disaster for Russia. Like you said, fingers crossed. Yeah. Okay. Now I have one for you because there's a lot of talk lately about Apollo 12, a documentary. Of course, we're celebrating the moon landing itself on the 20th of July. And I was on YouTube the other day. And suddenly I got this. I got this particular video on my screen. It's a documentary about Apollo 12. I'll see if I can let you hear just a little piece of it. Yes. There you go. See if I can turn it up a bit. Three astronauts with spacesuits, food, water, and a battery of scientific and communications equipment, prepared to fly to the moon. I'm going to take a look. I'm going to take a look. Thousands gathered at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Well, okay. That'll give you an idea. The fun thing I thought was Apollo 11, of course, was the first moon landing. This was the second one. After that came Apollo 13, another one that has been covered a lot, even in a movie, a Hollywood movie. And everybody seems to have forgotten about this one. No one talks about Apollo 13. No one talks about Apollo 12 or the other Apollo missions. I mean, sometimes you hear Apollo 17, the last one. Yes. Harrison Schmitt and I forget the other one. But these are almost unknown. No one ever talks about them. I mean, you're the freaking third guy on the moon. Yeah. Doesn't matter if you're the third guy. Do you know his name by heart? No. And I've seen the documentary and I forgot. That's how bad it is. You see? You see? You see? It only counts to be the first. That's right. Well, the second, I still know his name, of course. But we'll put this nice movie in the show notes and you can go watch for yourself. And there's one interesting detail as well. The rocket was hit by lightning on the way up. Wow. And it survived. It went up in one piece. Yeah. And the narrator says, just as a matter of fact, nobody knew if the rocket was hit by lightning. Nobody knew if the landing parachute would work at the landing back on Earth a couple of days later. And, well, they went ahead anyway, because what can you do, right? It's already launching. You can't stop it. Yeah. All you can, all you could do was go back. But there's the problem. So you might as well land on the moon and do your business first. So they did. Quite a sturdy rocket, the Saturn then. Yeah. It was. But the whole thing was black. It was black. The whole thing was sturdy because the capsule worked, the moon lander worked, and on the way back home the parachute worked as well. Wow. So, well, not meaning to spoil your fun, but it has a happy ending. Ah, okay. Do you know if they'll make documentaries about the other Apollo missions as well, or is it just Apollo 11, 12 and 13? Well, I forgot to look that up, but let's just have a quick look at Apollo 14. Apollo dash, sorry, space 14. See what happens. Oh, not good. Sorry. This is going to take… I do hope they're going to create documentaries about those lesser known Apollo missions. See what happens. Apollo 14 mission to… Yeah. There's a documentary about that one as well. 29 minutes. Okay. Okay. Now I'm busy doing this. Apollo 15, 28 minutes. So… I guess on each and every Apollo mission up until 17, there'll be a documentary for you. But I'm sure that everybody who hears this can look it up for themselves. Cool. Sounds very cool. Okay. Then I have my last item here. Oh, yeah. That's really beautiful. NASA restored Apollo mission control. Did you know that? Again. What do you mean again? No, there's a lot of Apollo memorabilia that last you a few months. But of course, yeah, we're… It's the 50th anniversary, right? Yeah. But wow. What did… The story, it was… I read it in Ars Technica, but it's probably on more places available on the internet. Mission control was sort of abandoned. And, well, people went there and they picked keys from the keyboards as souvenirs, you know. Wow. You know. They took them from their families and friends. And it was a garbage heap. Stuff was left there. And well, recently somebody decided to bring it back to its former glory. And it has. So you have now these big screens on the walls and the small computer screens have been restored and the keyboards have been restored. And well, you can now visit the place and see… It's like a museum now. Yeah. All that's missing is the people. Yeah. So we're waiting for Gene Kranz to stand there and say, failure is not an option. That's right. That's right. But well, I'm very happy with this because it's really a monument, of course. Wow. And they're treating it like one now. Okay. This really makes me want to visit Cape Canaveral one day. You need to. You need to. Especially you. Standing there, standing in the room where all the people that made the Apollo missions possible stayed. Yes. So that must be a very nice experience. I guess it is. So maybe I'm going to. Yeah. That sums it up, I guess. Anything you'd like to add? No, not for now. I mean, the past few weeks have been very busy, mainly from the United States. It's all about Artemis and the commercial lunar program, selecting the new lunar landers for the future. But the other question is… But the other countries have been quite quiet for the last few weeks. So I'm really looking forward to Chandrayaan, really looking forward to Spectre-RG. And after that, we just have to wait and see what happens. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. As far as Space Cowboys is concerned, we're on a biweekly schedule now, now that Thijs has gone off to Asia. We're doing it a bit at leisure. Next time… Yeah. Next time, in two weeks' time, we'll be talking to Arno Wielders. You and me, Juri. Cool. We'll talk to Arno Wielders about the Artemis project and see how much information we can get out of him. Yeah. And probably we'll talk a bit more about the Trump government and how they're treating space. Yeah. I'm really interested in seeing if they can make sure that the 20 to 30 billion that is needed can be made possible. Otherwise… That's the big thing. Yeah. That's the big difference so far between the Apollo project in the 60s, which had just about unlimited funds… Yeah. …and the Artemis project, which has, well, sort of moral backing from the US government, but not much more besides that. Yeah. Okay. Great. Well, I'm looking forward to that. Thank you for your space update. Yes. It was fun to do, so… It was. And we'll see one another back in two weeks. Great. Thank you. Yes. I'm excited to do that. I'm excited to do that. Thanks. I'm excited and we'll see again in the fall. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks a lot, for sure. Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye.