Who else is going to the Moon?

This is the contact with a death to one. Touch down to club B. Go on. Hi everyone and welcome to Space Cowboys. Hey there. Hey Herbert. Hi guys. You look surprised that we started. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was reading and sort of... Still in all the stories of the day. Yeah, I'm looking at my stories of the week. I have a couple. Yeah, I think we all have a couple. We do. I think so, yeah. Because today... There's Joeri. We have Joeri. Hi there. Hey Joeri. Welcome to you. We've been calling you our in-house space nerd. That's a nice title. Is that a good title? That's a nice title. Okay, great. Because you seem to be sort of like this human full of knowledge about everything that goes on outside... Well, basically on the other side of the globe and then outside our globe. Exactly. Yes. Well... Right? And so today we're going to talk about all the things that we didn't have time to talk about in the past five episodes or so. I really had a feeling that... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There were so many things constantly going on and then we had these wonderful guests that I all love to talk to, but our stories of the week were constantly sort of felt crammed and sometimes you have to skip things. So today, for everybody who feels that they're not up to date to what's happening out there, we're going to bring you up to date. I was discussing with Joeri what we were about to do in this episode and I heard myself saying it's about last week and next month. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of true. Yeah. Yeah. And so you all brought a bunch of stories to the table. Yep. I basically already... I suppose you did too. Well, I have one. I have one. One. Yeah. I have one because all the other ones... The big one, I guess. You guys already... It's pretty big. It's pretty big. So we're going to... Today, we're going to talk about SpaceX, Hayabusa. Yes. The Dragon capsule. Yeah. That one too. The mystery surrounding it. Yep. What else? Yes. Hopefully a bit of Blue Origin. Blue Origin. Mars quakes. The possibility of going to Mars at all. The possibility. And the moon. And the moon. And the moon. Yeah. Voyager. I have Voyager. You have Voyager news? Yes. Well, no. Not news, but something interesting nevertheless. Oh, cool. Well, then I'll start with this one. Yeah. Because Yuri Gagarin's launch pad is to be decommissioned. The historical... Yeah. The historical launch pad is going to be decommissioned in Russia. It's still... In action. Yeah. It was still in use. Sputnik launched from there. Yuri Gagarin launched from there. They all launched from Site 1 at Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. And it's still being used today because probably almost all the expeditions going to the International Space Station are still launching from that same pad where the ancestor of all the cosmonauts and Austro-astronauts, Yuri Gagarin, was launched from. So it is a very historical site. Yes. And were you now named or not named after Yuri Gagarin? No. Unfortunately not. It would have been a great story, right? Yeah, exactly. And what interests me is what does it mean, decommissioned? It's a bureaucratic word. Well, they're not going to... Will it be demolished? Will it be sold or what? No. The thing is this. So crew launches are transitioning from the Soyuz FG to the Soyuz 2 rocket. And this launch pad is just not up to date anymore. And there's basically no funds available for it anymore. So Ars Technica reported this. And it's... That's... It's just there's no money to upgrade it. And I guess also no use to upgrade it then right now. They have other launch pads. They will just leave it to rot. Judging by this, the way the Russians currently deal with their old space hardware. Yes, probably. Probably. But there's another launch pad just around the corner in Baikonur. I think it's called Launch Pad 31. And that's currently upgraded for the Soyuz 2. So they'll continue to use that. Yeah. And then I guess the other spot, I don't know, they might have to turn it into a museum or something. They may do that. Then again, they may not. Because the Buran is still somewhere in an old hangar. Yeah. As I said, rotting away. That's terrible. Yeah. Terrible. They should take care of their... They should. Their history. Space memorabilia. Their history. Yeah. That's right. So we'll see. If anybody knows what's going to happen, let us know. If anybody is interested in funding this museum to be... Let us know. Let us know. We'll arrange things. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And the best way to contact us, I was thinking about this, is probably through Twitter. Space Cowboys Pod. Space Cowboys Pod. Yeah. And you'll be able to find us and tweet to us and give us all your messages. Now, about that Mars mission. Yeah. If we're going there at all. So. I have a headline from spacenews.com saying, independent report concludes 2033 human Mars mission is not feasible. Yeah. Period. Well, there's no period in the headline, but still, period. Exactly. So there was the idea that the United States could go to Mars before or in 2033. And now basically a report has said it's impossible. This idea is forever in the air. You know, Bush president, both Bush presidents were announcing Mars missions and well, Obama, Trump, Mars is always in the picture. Yeah. And nobody ever gives a damn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Wow. Oh my God. That's the ... That's the counterbalance. Yeah. Exactly. And they basically said they sort of measured the strategy that NASA had laid out in its exploration campaign report, which projected the continuous use of the Space Launch System. Well, we talked about the Space Launch System a couple of times. Joeri, what's up with the Space Launch System? It's forever getting delayed. And the interesting stuff is that I think earlier this year, last month, the NASA director, Jim Bridenstine, and the Space Council from the US government also were fed up with the progress on the Space Launch System. So they basically said, OK, Boeing, you're building the Space Launch System. If you can't get it done in time, we're going to ask one of our commercial partners, SpaceX or Blue Origin, to do it. So you're doing it. So you're doing it. Better hurry and make sure that you get it up and running. Get it done, yeah. Get it done by 2024, because that's when we want to go back to the moon. Yeah. And it's not making progress. That's one point. But this STPI, Science and Technology Policy Institute, also says the funds went into this project. So there's no funds for anything else. For a Mars mission. And the problem is… And this rocket is not going to Mars. It's not going to Mars at all, because it's not fit for that work. No. And the problem is also that NASA is currently working on two things at the same time. They're working on their SLS return to the moon strategy. On the other hand, they're still working on ISS, which is also eating away a lot of budget from their… Space station. Yeah, the space station. The International Space Station. They're thinking about funding it up until 2028. So if that's eating away your budget, then there's no room left to fund any mission to Mars. Yeah. So they have to make decisions. They have to focus on what they want. And right now, I'm not getting the feeling that they're focusing on Mars. They're focusing on returning to the moon. Suddenly, yeah. And maybe because of this… Because they… I mean, this report came out, but they sort of already knew that they were not on track at all. Not even only money-wise, because that's a huge… You have to pump funds into a project like that. Like crazy. Like it's the 60s all over again. Like it's the 60s all over again. Nobody was really doing that. And now… This report basically said that there are still so many challenges when it comes to a crewed spacecraft that has to go to Mars. Like the stuff I mentioned, radiation. Exactly, exactly. And they said… Food. Yeah. They would need to have these critical technologies tested by 2022. So that's… And then they would have like 10 years to actually implement them. Yeah, it's basically… Which is unlikely, because they said moving ahead without completing those technologies, first, will dramatically increase technology and schedule risks. Yeah, but maybe a report like this is a good thing. It's more like a wake-up call for the American government. I mean, they keep saying, we want to go to Mars. We want to make sure that the US astronauts sets foot on Mars in the 2030s. But you have to put your money where your mouth is. That's right. And maybe this is a wake-up call for them. Yeah. So funds may come, but, well, I'm not certain it will. Well, and so now the strategy then is… To first go to the moon, maybe develop some technology there that they can then later on use on Mars. From what I understood, they want to build a gateway in lunar orbit and use that as a way to validate new technologies. You need to practice. And also use it as a staging point for further exploration in the solar system, including Mars. But I'm not sure when this new gateway station is actually ready. We're not entirely sure. They want to go to… They want to go to the surface of the moon. They want to build a space station in lunar orbit. As a rule of thumb, it will be ready later than you think. Yes. Well, China is also planning a moon base. Right. Which is interesting because I believe this lunar mission by the United States is going to the South Pole. And China also wants to build a lunar base also on the South Pole. Probably not right next to each other. It's going to get crowded on the South Pole. Anybody know here why the South Pole? I think they're aiming for the… The Shackleton crater. At least that's what I understood. Oh, we're going to talk about him in a little bit. Yeah. I think the interesting thing about the Shackleton crater is that there is an indication that there's water ice available in that crater. And that makes it increasingly interesting for human settlement. Okay. Well, here's when suddenly all these different news reports suddenly start colliding. Because we're going to have something about Blue Origin and Shackleton in a little bit. But this China moon… The moon base was also just… It's also from yesterday. In about 10 years they want to do this. That was the news that came out of… Okay. Came from… Somehow when the Chinese say so, I believe them. Because… We live in the Chinese century anyway. They're not a democracy. They have the power. If government in China says we're going to do this, they're probably going to do it. Yeah, yeah. And they don't have… Well, they have something like a Congress, but not one that can… Break down budgets. Yeah. And they've been to the moon recently. They landed a lander on the other side of the moon. On the far side of the moon last year? No, this year. Earlier this year. Earlier this year? Yeah. So, I mean, they're already working on it. Yeah. So, maybe I share your optimism. And they're saying in about 10 years and now the Americans are saying within five. You know, in the last year that Trump is president. That's the idea. So, that right before he leaves office, there will be an American on the moon. Well… Talk about wake-up calls. If the Chinese are really making progress on this, you might get a sense of urgency all over again in the United States. I think that's also why the deadline for bringing back the American astronauts to the moon suddenly went from 2028, which was the original deadline, to 2024. Because they're feeling the hot breath of the Chinese in their back. That's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah, could well be. I do want to correct myself. It's only if Trump gets re-elected, of course, that it's in his last year of his presidency. You know, that's the whole problem. But it could well be. And I think that the idea was also that because Mike Pence has announced this moon mission, it wasn't Trump himself, it was Mike Pence, the vice president, who did it. It was basically sort of a wake-up call to the entire industry. SpaceX, of course, has done its fair share of waking people up. Yeah. The new space race. But then in this case, it's like, hey, all that old technology that you have, it's just not going to happen. And now we want to go to the moon within five years, like make stuff happen or help us out. And it did rattle some feathers, I think. It's just that when did they announce this? Like two months ago, a month ago, like late March? Yeah. Out of nowhere. I think if I just sort of judged the Internet, I was sort of browsing around about this. It's not really being taken seriously yet. It's more like a. OK, that's a cool ambition. Now what? Yeah. Right. It's not like there's now suddenly a plan and a big announcement of a new rocket and how they're going to do it. It's just like, OK, that's a challenge. Yeah. Right. So I guess only a year from now or something, we'll be able to really say if enough stuff is happening to even make this a reality. Don't hold your breath. Yeah. Yeah. Which also might depend on what Falcon Heavy is doing, maybe. Or not. Because maybe they can replace anything with Falcon Heavy. No. For a mission to the moon, the current architecture that they're using, SLS is a very important step. Because. But SLS doesn't really exist yet. It doesn't exist. The first mission is planned for next year. It's going to be a test mission. It was planned for two years ago. Yeah. That's what I said. It's constantly being delayed. But the current architecture calls for a very heavy lift system, such as the space launch system. And if you're going to use something like Falcon Heavy, which is also a very heavy lift rocket, you have to have two launches almost at the same time and assemble the whole stack to go to the moon in orbit. That brings up a lot of extra difficulty and a lot of extra planning, planning ahead to make this mission happen. So if you want to go to the moon quickly, then SLS is still the way forward. At least that's what I understood from Jeremy. And Brian and Stein and NASA. That's why they're still aiming for SLS as a moon mission. But of course, Falcon Heavy could play an important role in any delivery to the moon. Or Blue Origin could play a role in delivery to the moon to make sure that the moon base is there is permanently inhabited. Just like the ISS is now. What is the SLS? The space launch system? Yes. What is it? Literally, physically. Physically? Yeah. It's a very, very big rocket. It's the biggest rocket that... I sound like Trump now. It's the biggest rocket. It's a huge, huge rocket. It's huge. Very bigly. Yeah. But it's basically a combination of technology that already existed. Because the first stage is driven by rocket engines that are inherited from the space shuttle. The second stage is basically... The second stage, which is inherited from the Delta IV rocket. The whole tank for the first stage is basically the external tank from the space shuttle. And all thrown together, you get the SLS, which has an incredible lift power. And it's able to lift whole space stations for any journey towards the moon. But it's still a very difficult rocket to get hang of. And that's why it's being constantly delayed. Yeah. If you take... But it is a rocket. It is a rocket. I mean, more... It's not... Sometimes I had the feeling that they were not really developing a new rocket, but they were just more... It was more an assembly of existing things. It is a rocket. It is actually a rocket. If you look it up, it's a big orange rocket. This is going to be a good one. If you take this part from this rocket and that part from that rocket, will you get a coherent whole? It's a proven technology. So that's the pro. On the other side... Well, I think the proven technology is important. That's the important aspect in this one. If you want to move ahead quickly, you have to go for proven technology that's already available off the shelf. And talk about bigness. Will it be bigger than the big effing rocket from SpaceX? I think it's almost the same size. Okay. And also the same kind of lift. But, I mean, the big rocket from SpaceX is still years away. We haven't seen any real hardware. Aside from the Starship Hopper. Did we not see that? We saw it being built. Yeah, that was the Starship. That was the tip of the rocket, basically. Yeah, yeah. But the SLS, the biggest parts are already being assembled or already being created for the first mission. Okay. If I just... I got some numbers here. So the space launch system, just in pure height, 111 meters. Yeah. Starship. Drum roll, please. 118. Oh, that's very tall. Seven meters, yeah. Let's see. How much can it lift payload to low Earth orbit? Over 100,000 kilograms for the SpaceX Starship. And let's see. Oh, and then suddenly it's in tons and in pounds. Oh, that's terrible. So payload, plug one, 95 tons. Yeah, that's sort of comparable. Yeah, right. I'm just doing my quick Google. Yeah, it's sort of comparable, but just 5,000 kilograms short. Because the BFR... Okay, so who's the bigger one then? Yeah, BFR. Yeah, BFR wins just slightly. So it's more bigger. It's more bigger. Yes, it's definitely more bigger. Yeah, so I guess we'll see. We'll see. We'll wait and see what happens. Is that a temporary conclusion? Yeah, let's do that. Next year is going to be a crucial year for SLS and the whole moon base or lunar gateway system. Yeah, I'm trying to see if I can get the Bridenstine quote here about waves sort of goes off script, but I don't see it. Let's first go to... Another drum roll. Another drum roll. Yeah, yeah. No, the next one. Because let's stick to SpaceX for a little bit. Yeah. The Dragon Capsule. Oh, yeah. Yes. SpaceX has said that an anomaly has occurred. I love that word. An anomaly. Something that, you know, something was a little bit off. If something blows up in your face, they'll still call it an anomaly. Or they have another interesting term, which is called RUD. RUD. It's Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly. It's basically something blowing up. Exactly. Exactly. Because that's what you could see. There was a leaked video. It clearly shows a Dragon Capsule exploding. Not just any Dragon Capsule, but the one that we really reported on like a month ago. It was a big moment in sort of spaceflight history because a private capsule docked with the International Space Station. Big moment. They were just running some regular tests and bam, thing blew up. Like not even... It was like split second, boom, thing was gone. And just plumes of smoke and everything was out. Yeah. And everything was gone. You're referring to... You're referring to the picture with the reddish smoke. Yeah, but also the video. There's a video. There's a video. There's a video. There's no audio. Yeah, but there's video of it and it's leaked. SpaceX doesn't want to say anything and nobody wants to say anything basically. There was just one subcontractor in Florida that had emailed its employees that if they would share this video anywhere, they would be fired. Yeah. So thereby also confirming that it was actually, that it happened. Yeah. And that it was some video. Yeah. And that it's on video and that it exploded. Yeah. And more than a week after the explosion, SpaceX remained silent about the incident. And it's so, it's too bad because SpaceX, it was a glorious moment for them. People thought that they were on track to now start launching astronauts to the International Space Station. They might have already been able to do that by October and now probably it will be definitely delayed till 2020. Yeah. I mean, especially if we don't... We don't even know what happened. No. No. Would you be so kind as to speculate? What happened? What happened? Well, to be really honest, this is also a mystery to me. I really don't know what happened. Maybe they pushed the tests, pushed the limits of their test a bit too much. Of course, that's the whole reason behind testing is making sure that you can push your limits and see when something breaks. Well, they probably found out when something breaks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On the other hand, it doesn't look like... It doesn't look like it is a very extremely serious problem with the Dragon capsule or the Draco thrusters because in a few days, a new Dragon capsule will be launched to the ISS as a resupply mission, which is also using Draco thrusters. And if they would have... This was the idea. So this is just pure speculation. Yeah. If something was really, really, really wrong with the Draco thrusters or with the Dragon capsule... They would have helped this launch. They would have probably helped this launch. To see if there is any commonality between the man Dragon and the resupply Dragon and see if anything would go wrong. So my bet would be on them pushing the limits of their tests a bit too much, seeing when it would fill and finding out that it would fill at a certain moment. That's probably my guess. So let's not go there anymore. That's basically the idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. delay in their uh manned missions to the iss because what they were trying to do is use this exact capsule uh for an in-flight boards test in june okay so they would launch the rocket that also launched to the iss back in i think it was march or something and they would put the uh dragon capsule on top of it and then mid-flight see if it could escape the already uh flying rocket they would use the same kind of capsule for the exact same capsule but that is destroyed now so they have to find a new capsule so that's probably going to take up some delay um and it will probably also delay the first manned mission which was originally targeted for july if everything went well of course it'll probably delay it a few months but i'd bet on seeing a manned mission at the end of this year yeah and and now there was also there was a dragon capsule supposed to be blasted off today yeah but it was delayed for two days because of a minor technical issue on the iss well not that minor there was a problem with uh the electricity yeah the electricity going from the solar arrays to the rest of the station and thereby um they wanted to troubleshoot that issue first and then launch the dragon yeah and they had a problem with the with the the arm like the robot robot arm that would yeah pick up the dragon capsule when it arrived and it was the backup power there was a power system that failed and therefore the backup power system of this arm failed and now it's been delayed the amount of redundancy on the iss is crazy but it's good that they try to find out what went wrong first and then launch yeah these kind of critical i guess they're trying to prevent other things from uh from blowing up yeah um yeah falcon heavy mission let's keep let's stay with spacex for a little bit falcon heavy mission um is happening uh soon again it's going to be a mission for uh the department of defense it's called stp2 will be launched in june with two side boosters the two side boosters that also were used on the air upset mission as we talked about earlier um um is that they landed the center core correctly on a drone ship uh which is great and then it topped over uh toppled over because of a storm yeah yeah bummer it's kind of a bummer went so successful and then it is laughing like crazy it feels so incredibly stupid you launch a rocket up into into space you are somehow able to to land it and then it's completely a wave destroys it yeah yeah it's sucks sucks for them it does yeah definitely uh then okay we're gonna go on to the next one but i have some sound that's so let's let's let's load up this sound okay because we know about earthquakes right we know about earthquakes do you hear this eerie sound this is the mars wind okay beautiful it's really it's really great but now listen to this so so so so so so so so so it was louder for some time that was probably a marsquake the first ever detected marsquake wow now how did they do that how do they know now how did they well okay so they don't know yet um but they they think uh they might have one um as some of you might know uh the there's a mission going on called the marsquake and it's a mission called the marsquake and it's a mission called the for Queer Trans tylko tv Earthquake y That's why. Yeah. And that's what probably then causes these quakes to happen. They need to know. That's why they send inside up there, down there. I don't know how you say that. Do you send something up? Send something up in order to go down. And they now finally have their first sound that they finally, their first tremor. They think that they're going to research and they need to confirm that this is actually a Mars quake. They aren't sure yet exactly. Exactly. I thought that the sound that came right after was actually also really interesting. Listen to this. Wow. That's eerie. Yeah. But it's the robotic arm of insight. I was like, oh, that's the thing. That's the thing. Nope. Nope. No, no, no. It's an incredibly, the seismometer can detect anything. It can detect wind. It can detect its own movement. And that's why they always have to make sure that it's not actually something else, that it's not something happening somewhere surrounding the seismometer. Beautiful. Yeah. It's great. It's great, right? Oh, that's not, that's not supposed to be there. This is supposed to be there. More wind? No, that's the quake. The wind is this. It's another quake. Okay. It's just the wind. Really subtle. And then here comes the quake again. Oh, yeah. It's so eerie. Yeah. But these are very gentle quakes. Yeah. Very gentle contraction. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true. I would expect to hear more rumbling. Yeah. Crackling. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. They don't know. Yeah. I don't know yet how quakes work on Mars. That's why they, that's why the InSight mission exists. It says over time, the contraction builds up stress until it is strong enough to break the crust causing quake. And they're still studying the seismic data to determine the cause of the signal, which is way too weak to provide useful data on the structure of the interior of Mars. Right. Even though that's one of the mission's primary objectives. They want to know what's really going on. Yeah. And this was even too weak for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the idea is, I guess, Earth is, has so much heat inside that you have this, these currents of molten rock going all over the place and causing these tectonic movements, right? And Mars is just, as I said, a dead rock, but it's still relatively warm and still cooling down. And then it just contracts. because it's losing heat. That's the idea. This is perfect. Without any current steps. This is great to ask one of our upcoming guests about Mars. One of the guests that we're going to have in the next couple of weeks. We need to have somebody who is involved with insight. Yes. Or not. I would really love to have somebody on the show who can just talk about a day on Mars. Mars geology. Yeah, take us to Mars for a day. Walk us around. Okay, let's have some sunrise. Yeah, exactly. And what's happening and then what does a quake do and all that stuff. Good idea. Yeah, so that's coming up. That's coming up. Beautiful. Then, Hayabusa. Joeri. I have no clue. So please, Joeri, the floor is yours. Your expertise. Hayabusa. From the start. What's Hayabusa? What's happening? So a while ago, Japan launched a robotic probe to an asteroid. An asteroid called Ryugu. It's a bit like Osiris-Rex, which is an American probe, which was launched to Benyus. Ryugu, also an asteroid. It's a C-type asteroid, carbonaceous asteroid. So it contains a lot of carbon and they think it's a building block of the early solar system. What Hayabusa wants to do is collect specimens, so dirt, from Ryugu, from the asteroid. And they have a number of options to do that. So a few months ago, they first sucked up some dust from the surface of the asteroid. But now they went for a different approach. What they did is they launched a small projectile, a small explosive to Ryugu and then made it explode. So they created an artificial crater on the surface of Ryugu. And their goal is to unearth dirt from Ryugu that hasn't been touched by the solar wind or by anything else. So it's pristine. So it has to come from a certain depth. Yeah, it has to be pristine. And that's why they opted for an explosion to create their own deep... So they're shooting... Did they want to go? Yeah. I'm not sure how deep the crater is. I think it's about 16 meters in diameter. So it's quite a... 16 meters. So it's quite a sizable crater right now. And they're trying to figure out exactly what the crater is looking like right now. Sort of also finding out how deep it actually is and what actually moved. But just a while after launching the projectile, they were able to make a photograph of ejecta coming up from the asteroid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they're confirming that the projectile worked and that there was an explosion. There's no video of this? No. There's only a picture. We'll post it in the show notes because it's a bit of a vague picture, but you can easily see the ejecta coming up from the surface of the asteroid. And now they're mapping the new crater that they formed and they're trying to find out where they should once again land Hayabusa Pro to suck up some of the pristine dust that was uncovered by this explosion. They'll do that in a few months. They'll launch another... Or they'll release another... another surface probe for some pictures or for some further research. And at the end of this year, they'll leave the asteroids and come back to Earth. With the sample? With the samples. So they have a sample from the surface. They have a sample coming from the unearthed or the newly created crater. And they'll bring it back to Earth for further analysis to find out what these asteroids are made of, what kind of, what is in there. If it is a building block from our earlier universe, maybe it can explain why we came about, why we are here. So it is an interesting mission. And I'm really looking forward to the first results from the analysis of the specimens. So am I. Can they analyze them from far away? Of course, they have spectrometers. So they can see what kind of... What kind of atoms are on the surface. And I think they did the same with Bennu, the asteroid that the American OSIRIS-REx probe is now orbiting. I think they also saw that there was water available. That there were remains or pieces of water available on the surface of the asteroid. And they can, of course, do the same with Ryugo. But I haven't heard anything about the results of that. So we really have to wait. Yeah. Yeah. Until Hayabusa comes back to Earth. Yeah. Am I correct in saying that there was an earlier Hayabusa mission? Yeah. Yeah. Because I found this crazy video. Okay. Oh, right. Yeah. Japanese videos. This is a tribute from years ago to an earlier Hayabusa mission. This is some Hayabusa. This is some hardcore Japanese weirdness. Yes. Let's listen in for a little bit. Okay. Yeah. It looks like a little space... It's a little kitty. It's a little kitty and it looks like a spacecraft. And if I just describe what I'm seeing, the kitty gets hurt. I believe it gets a solar flare in its face. Well, the first version of Hayabusa ran into quite a lot of problems along its journey. So it was actually lucky to reach the asteroid that it was supposed to reach because it encountered so many problems along the way. And it also was able to only gather a few specks of dust from the asteroid. Oh, it did gather something. It did gather something, but... Look at the kitty. It has all these patches on it, so it got hurt. But now it's flying and it's arriving at the... At the... Asteroid. Asteroid. Asteroid. Hayabusa 1. Oh! It has a little fishing net now and some fishing gear, I see. It's on its way, so then it went to the asteroid. And Joeri, I'm looking at you. Yeah, I'm trying to narrate it. So it's aiming for... And it... Gathering some dust and it fails. And it fails. No, it doesn't really fail, but it was only able to gather a few specks of dust. And did it bring them anywhere? Yeah, it did bring them back to Earth. Is the kitty dying? No. So... Meanwhile... It survived. I'm hearing a large amount of auto-tune as well. I'm not sure how good that was in 2009. But eventually the kitty flies out, leaves over there. I think it's trying to get something somewhere. And then at the end of this crazy video, it at least comes back to Earth. Well, isn't that great? So Hayabusa 2. Hayabusa 2. When do you think this is all coming? When does it come back? If it all goes well? It leaves the asteroid at the end of this year. And I think it will be back in... I'm not entirely sure. I think end of 2021 or the first half of 2022. It'll come back to Earth. Some complicated trajectory to navigate back to Earth. It takes a while to get back to Earth. Using as little fuel as possible. Exactly. It's probably pretty far away. Not that far away. Do you remember? No. No? Yeah. I don't even know where it is. Ryugu, right? That's the... That's the asteroid. Yeah, exactly. So can I see? Not yet. And the song is done. We're quickly running through all our little news things. Oh, we have some more. Yeah. We're going to Blue Origin. We're going to talk about Blue Origin. Okay. What about it? More Japanese stuff. More. Another kitty. Another kitty with a new song. Kill it. Yeah. Kitties killed. Yeah. Blue Origin posted a mysterious tweet, Joeri, that you saw. Read it. Well, there was hardly anything to read. What did you see? A date. A date. And an old photograph of a ship. The 9th of May, 2019. 2000. And a photograph of an old ship. I sort of dove into what we're seeing. So that's in about nine days from now. It's one. It's been first of May now. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know if people have been listening to this podcast later, then they will already know what's going on. But okay. So what we saw was a picture. So something is about to happen. Yeah. Okay. The ship called Endurance. A ship that sailed about 100 years ago in 1914. It was commanded by a British polar explorer called Shackleton. Oh, yeah. Hey. There we have him again. There we have him again. It's an epic story. What happened? To Mr. Shackleton and his crew. They became trapped in pack ice. Okay. So first they went to Antarctica. You know, South Pole. This was really in an era when, just like now, Antarctica was like the next frontier. But back then it was just like the first time that people were trying to at least go there and start up some... Discover and put some scientific basis there. But this ship, the Endurance, became trapped in pack ice and was slowly crushed before actually they could really settle over there. The crew escaped by camping on the sea ice, which was crazy because this was floating and they weren't really going anywhere until it disintegrated. Then they had lifeboats still left. So the ships crushed. They got these lifeboats. On these lifeboats, they reach Elephant Island, which is like an island way out there. I assume that people aren't really great in their geography when it comes to Antarctica, but trust me, it's like, it's far away. And then they... I have to tell this right. On Elephant Island, they stay for a while. Yeah. The whole crew stays on Elephant Island while Shackleton goes and gets help at a whale base on... The island of South Georgia, which is really like, if you look at the map, you're sort of south of Argentina, like the south of the Falkland Islands and all that stuff. And then the South Georgia is way farther back into sort of the Atlantic Ocean, which is crazy. So they're not going... Shackleton didn't go and get help at the tip of South America. It went farther into the ocean on these little... On a raft, I believe. Mm-hmm. 1,000 kilometers, just straight into... Over the sea, into nowhere, and gets help and saves the entire crew from Elephant Island. And it's like this insane mission where everybody survived. They survived by, I believe, shooting penguins and some sea lions and... Or was it sea... Sea elephants, maybe? Sea elephants. Who knows? Who knows? And... And everybody survived. And then seven years later, Shackleton goes back for another mission, and then he dies of a heart attack. It's like... Yeah. While his ship was moored at South Georgia. So it was just a sad story. He's been buried there at South Georgia. And a crater on the south pole of the moon is named after him. And so now... Okay. The blue origin posts a picture of this ship, the Endurance. And then they're going to land on the south pole of the moon. With a date. What are they suggesting? What are they suggesting? That they're going to land on the south pole of the moon. Joeri! We're all looking at you. Joeri, you're going to be... Well, Blue Origin, I mean, it's a very secretive company. So we have SpaceX on the one hand. It's very... So far they were focused on space tourism, right? Yeah, exactly. Because Blue Origin is the company that was founded by Jeff Bezos. Oh, they're going to do a Survivor episode on the moon. Who knows? Who knows? Yeah. So they're going to dump people on the south pole of the moon. Yeah. So they're going to dump people on the south pole of the moon. Yeah. And then they all have to get back. Of course. Yeah. So it is Jeff Bezos' company. It's his little child. Like SpaceX's toy. Elon Musk's toy. But Jeff Bezos is really serious about Blue Origin. He's pumping a lot of money into it. A billion a year. A billion a year. Yeah. Okay. That's only one billion. He sells a billion. He sells a billion. Yeah. So he can't say he's going to sell 100 billion. He can't say he's going to sell 100 billion. So apparently he's going to sell 200 billion. So he's going to sell 200 billion. So he's going to sell 200 billion. Yeah. So he's going to sell 100 billion. That's not very... He's not going to sell 100 billion. A billion a year of Amazon shares. It's only 1% of his income. He does. Yes. Yeah, that's nothing for him. He started out... Blue Orange is like $100 for me. Blue Orange started out as a company aiming for space tourism. That's why they developed New Shepard, which is a capsule that launches up until 100 kilometers, the edge of space, stays there for a while, and then lands at the exact same spot where it was launched. It's a parabolic flight. Yeah. So they've been testing New Shepard and the capsule for quite a while now. It's working out quite well. I think they're aiming for the first tourist flights later this year. So they're making progress on that. But on the other hand, Blue Origin is also a company that's aiming for rocketry, for launching satellites into orbit. So it's becoming a direct competitor of SpaceX. They have their new Glenn rocket, which is supposed to be launched in 2022. And they've created a number of new rocket engines. They've also been able to sell those rocket engines to pretty big companies. So you have the Atlas V, which is the mainstay rocket for launching everything from Boeing or Lockheed Martin. It's the mainstay rocket for launching national security payloads. The Atlas V rocket is going to be replaced by the Vulcan rocket. And that's going to use engines created by Blue Origin. So they have a lot of new rockets. Yeah. So they have a lot of new rockets. So they have a lot of new rockets. So they have a lot of new rockets. They have quite an interesting business over there. Did you say Falcon or Vulcan? Vulcan. Vulcan. Vulcan. V-U-L-C-N. Yeah. Who's creating the Vulcan rocket? The United Launch Alliance, which is a partnership between Lockheed Martin and Boeing. Yeah. And so Blue Origin is going to do the engines, you said? Yeah. Huh. The first stage engines are going to be the BE-4, which is the newest engine from Blue Origin's line. But they're also going to use the same kind of engine for their own rocket, the new Glenn. And that's also going to launch. They already have a few contracts with satellite operators. So they're going in the same business as SpaceX, launching rockets. It's not going to be reusable, but it's going to be cheaper. And it's going to be able to launch quite big satellites, which is also interesting. At the same time, they're also working on something really far in the future. It's called Blue Moon. And that's their project to get back to the moon. Dun-dun-dun. Dun-dun-dun. And if I have to... I think the whole announcement made on Twitter by Blue Origin has something to do with this. Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun. Going back to the moon. So if I had to place bets, I think they're going to show some pretty concrete plans for going back to the moon. What? Based on their own line of rocketry, based on their own capsules. Okay. It's one big moon day. If Jeff Bezos... tells the world he's going to the moon, I will believe him more than if President Trump does so. Yeah. Right? And it's a bit like we discussed earlier in this episode. This is the right timing. If you're coming up with plans to go back to the moon, this is the right timing because NASA and the US government is actively looking for ways to go back to the moon as soon as possible. And if Blue Origin can come up with an architecture, with a plan, to make sure that Americans go back to the moon as soon as possible, with real hardware, with real plans, then I think they have a pretty good shot at winning some of the funding from NASA and the US government. So my bets would be on this having to do something with the US wanting to go back to the moon. Yeah. And maybe also something to do with Jeff Bezos looking for a business model for Blue Origin. Yeah. I mean, SpaceX is faring quite well with the subsidies, from the US government and from NASA. I mean, the whole CRS, the commercial resupply services that they're offering. I mean, it's bringing in quite a lot of money for SpaceX. Big NASA contracts. Big money. And if NASA wants to have a permanent basis on the moon or lunar gateway, they're also going to have to make sure that these lunar bases are being resupplied. And who could do that? SpaceX or Blue Origin. Yeah. Interesting. So that means competition for SpaceX as well. Which is always good, right? Yes, it is. Shall we listen to Jeff Bezos just for a short little bit? Hold on. Important to me. And if I believe on the longest timeframe, and I really hear I'm thinking of a timeframe of a couple hundred years. So over many decades, I believe, and I get increasing conviction with this with every passing year, the Blue Origin, the space company, is the most important work I'm doing. And so there is a whole plan for Blue Origin. So you'd say retail, online, e-commerce, publishing, that's all less relevant than the space project. Yes, and I'll tell you why. And so first of all, of course, I'm interested in space because I'm passionate about it, and I've been studying it and thinking about it since I'm a five-year-old boy. But that is not why I'm pursuing this work. I'm pursuing this work because I believe in space. I believe if we don't, we will eventually end up with a civilization of stasis. By which he means we're not going anywhere. We'll basically be- Stasis, nothing interesting is happening. A standstill. Yeah, a standstill. And it's interesting because of course, it's Elon Musk as well who says space is his most important thing. If you would have told me this was Elon Musk talking, I would have believed you as well. Yeah, exactly. These are the same kind of words that Elon Musk is using to- They're the same type of guy. Yeah, and then NASA is basically also saying the same thing. So you have all these people now, men, basically saying, well, we have to go somewhere. We have to go somewhere. We have to go somewhere. My mom was very pissed at this, by the way. My mom doesn't like it. What exactly doesn't she like? She's like, just stay here. We got enough problems to fix here. Okay. Which I hate, you know, so I fought with her over that for a little bit. I guess it all starts with ambition. And then, Herbert, you made a very good point. The business model might be there for Blue Origin, where sometimes when it comes to Elon Musk, you can think that maybe his whole Mars plans is like, well- Okay, yeah. Who's paying for all this? Well, Starlink, his new constellation of internet satellites, Elon Musk wants to use that service to pay for his plans to go to Mars. And then just waste that money, so to speak? For him, it's not wasting money. It's progressing human civilization. Yeah, okay. For him, it's worth it. And I think from what I heard, it's also the same case for Jeff Bezos. He is using the money that he's currently earning with Amazon to further pursue his dreams of having a rocket company that is able to further human civilization. Yeah. And it's also selling the BE-4 to one of his competitors, which is an interesting choice, because why would you want to sell away your most valuable technology, rocket engine technology, to a direct competitor, United Launch Alliance, so they can launch rockets cheaper than, or maybe for the same price as you can do with the new Glenn rocket? Why would you do that? But it's just a source of income to make sure that his end goal, his North Star, his... that he can reach that. Yeah. So they're trying to build an ecosystem more than what... And of course... It just reminds me a little bit of the... the missions by the Dutch West India Company to the Americas in the 17th century. And the funny thing is, if you look at the economics of that, is that they never made a profit. So what the Netherlands... The Netherlands had a really big stake in the spice trade and... Slate trade. And some slave trade as well. And... But they made most money with spices, just very... These routes to the East that were pretty well established. And then they had... Going to the Americas was much, much more of like a risk taking endeavor where people would be able to buy stock in these endeavors. You could maybe lose all your money or they would strike gold and get beaver pelts and all that stuff. Yeah. And so the Dutch were not so much... When it came to the Americas, they weren't as much on a conquering sort of mission. They tried to build up these outposts just way out there in the middle of nowhere. Didn't have any form of communication really with the homeland. Just hoping they would really strike some sort of literal gold or something similar. Yeah, gold was supposed to be there. Yeah. And so they came back here, the West India Company, and they tried and they tried for about 100 years and they build up this warehouse. It's even not that far from here. The West India... The West Indian warehouse. And it was literally that colony that eventually gave us New York. It was New Amsterdam, of course, that where they... So the people from Amsterdam, they founded New Amsterdam. That was taken over by the English, became New York. But if you just look at what the West India Company did after all this investment... No profits. No profit at all and actually turned a loss. And it's interesting because what I always loved about that story is how you can really, with a... pretty clear business sense, looking at the East, like invest in something like going to the West. We've done it before. Yeah, exactly. Then coming back empty handed, basically, all the investors are without money. Yet at the same time with some colonization and some suffering by local people and all that stuff, the English were able to turn this outpost into something the world had never seen, which was New York. And that's why I asked that question. And that's why I asked that question. And that's why I asked that question. And that's why I asked that question. And that's why I asked that question. And that's why I asked that question. And that's why I asked that question. And that's why I asked that question to you, Joeri, because it's like sometimes you don't know what's going to happen, of course. Like the business case, Elon Musk might go broke. Maybe he's 80 and completely broke because he invested all his money there and then the Chinese or whatever. He'll have his place in history. He will have his place in history and then the Chinese will take over that Mars base and turn it into a city. Funny thing is, many billionaires are focused on only one thing, collecting more billions. And I mean, who cares? What can you do with extra billions? And Elon Musk, I respect that very much, is interested in doing something with his billions. Ah, yeah. Instead of raking them up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, well, I like that. Yeah. So, one billion a year for Jeff Bezos is maybe not that much. And he does the same. Yeah. Exactly. I think if I'm just looking at all my notes, those were all our stories. No, no, no, no. Oh! And that's it. I hope. I hope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always when we celebrated Sinterklaas, Saint Nicholas in, yeah, just a personal story from my family. We would always, Saint Nicholas, of course, you have this big night with presents and everything. And then the whole night was done. And then usually, like, there was always like one small little package hidden somewhere. Yeah, one more thing. One more thing. So, there's one more thing in these last five minutes. Herbert, what do you have? Yeah. Well, two actually. I'll start with you. There's two packages. Julie, how many do you have? Two more things. I don't have anything. Okay, great. Maybe just a quick look at the next month. See if there's anything that we're looking forward to. Yeah, let's do that in a little bit. First Herbert story. Okay, I found this one little bit about a team at Rensselaer. What's that? Rensselaer. Rensselaer is a, it's a, he was actually a guy who had a lot of land in upstate New York. That's right. Yeah. And… Points for you. Yeah. I did a whole project on New Netherlands. So, that's why I know all these stories about New Netherlands. It's in Troy, New York. It's some kind of a technology institute. Anyhow, there's a team there. I found this news item, developing a tool to battle space debris. And on the one hand, I think there's a big need for this because we're having more and more space debris all the time with India launching some space weapon and whatnot. So, I love the idea. Then again, this is so difficult and I don't very much believe in what they have done. They're using cube sets and nets and stuff like that to catch individual pieces of space debris. And I don't believe in that because there's too many of them. The velocity differences are so great. You need to have fuel on board of your space debris catching thing to change course to catch the next piece of space debris. It's going to be very fuel inefficient, very expensive per piece of space debris that you catch. Could you do something with magnets? That you just… I don't care. …point a magnet at it and you pull them together. Because if something flies past you at 10 kilometers per second… Yeah, yeah. …a magnet will not be of much use. Fair point. You need to change your course, change your orbit and fly alongside something. And then you can catch it with whatever tool you bring, a magnet or a net or I don't care what. But it's the spread in velocities that is the big problem. And no two pieces of space debris have the same orbit, have the same velocity. So that's a big problem. And help me out on this particular thing that you saw was by whom? Rensselaer. By Rensselaer. Yeah. That's the name of the company in Troy. Yeah. Okay. And who's going to pay for this? Who's going to pay for cleaning up space debris, taxes and recycling? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Because if you're developing technology, you're the person, the entity that's expecting to be paid. Yeah, I feel this. If somehow governments or space organizations are going to do the paying, but I don't know if they're prepared to do that. True. I sounded it. It's just like with Coca-Cola bottles. Sometimes we as a society feel obliged to clean up the trash of certain companies. Yeah. And then it's not that strange of an idea to let Coca-Cola themselves pay for the bottles that they make. The company that made the trash in the first place. Yeah. So maybe Lockheed and Boeing and SpaceX and Blue Horde. In some cases, it could be easy. For example, the anti-satellite test that was performed by India. I mean, terrible job for them. Yeah. They destroyed their own satellite and created so much space debris. No, no. That was innovation and a glorious moment for the Indian nation. Sure. Yeah. But you can expect them to pay for cleaning up that kind of debris. But on the other hand, what if an old rocket body from the 60s blows up and it's a rocket body from the Soviet Union? Or NASA. Or NASA. Yeah. Who would pay for that? Well, maybe the Soviet Union or not. Well, you would expect them to, but they're not going to. And yeah. Yeah. And who's going to prove that it didn't blow up by someone else's space debris? I mean, it's going to be so incredibly difficult to find funding for cleaning up our near earth space. But somehow, nations are going to have to unite around the idea that it's a common problem and you need to solve it in some international organization. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That you have to fund collectively. Yeah. True. To clean up after yourself. Yeah. Yeah. We teach this to little children. Why can't we teach governments and companies? Well, okay. Right now, everybody should be conscious of this problem and clean up after themselves. But the question is, what are we going to do about the debris that's already there? Yeah. Yeah. And that's more difficult. Somehow you'll have to establish an organization and fund an organization collectively to do that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when you start to find out, oh, there was a lot of things that we didn't have time for. Yeah. And that's why we're doing this. I think we need to do the big, big space cleanup. Yeah. The big space cleanup. Yeah. Yeah. The Borenslots. Borenslots. Maybe you can also do the big space cleanup. The big space cleanup. We'll put the idea in his head. And I have this other tidbit around one piece of space that we launched into deep space, four pieces, actually, the Voyagers and the Pioneers. You got Voyager news. Yeah. You hinted at this. Yeah. Yeah. I encountered this lovely video from a YouTube channel called Fraser Cain. Oh, Fraser. Yeah. lovely video from a youtube channel called fraser cane oh you know him yeah yeah no i don't know him personally i would love to but it's a person i didn't even know that but okay he is a great youtube channel so anybody listen to this go check out it's a lovely video it appeared on what's the title fifth of april and it's called where will the voyagers go next okay yeah and he's using this star catalog about the places and the velocities 3d velocities of the stars nasa's voyager yeah yeah this is the one shall we listen in for a little bit yeah okay from the sun and are now on a journey that will take them through the outer reaches of the solar system and out into the milky way galaxy that's right they carry on board the golden records a message from all humankind out into the cosmos let me tell you about what this video is trying to tell you. First, for people interested, we spoke to Ed Stone, of course, of the Voyager project. We did. Yeah, the head scientist of this. So listen to that episode if you're interested in everything about the Voyager missions. So what's up with them? Okay. Fraser Cain calculates, or maybe somebody did this for him, where the Voyagers will wind up in the next thousands of years. And it gives you a very nice insight in how vast and how empty space actually is, interstellar space actually is. Because, to give you the bottom line, the first time any of these spacecraft will end up within the distance of less than one light year of any star will be in about 100,000 years. Wow. Never any closer. Never any closer. So Proxima, they're going to Proxima Centauri, Proxima B? I forget the name. I see Proxima B here. Proxima Centauri is in the picture, but no Voyager, no Pioneer will ever be closer than about three light years, which is hardly any closer than they are now. Yeah. And a couple of obscure stars enter into the picture. Yeah, oh, that's great. After 90,000 something years, one of the Voyagers will be in three quarter light years distance of some star. Yeah. And it will just be a dot. I mean, it's hopeless. Hopeless. That anybody will find them. Yeah. And I never realized how difficult it is for a spacecraft like this to be close to any star ever. Yeah. And then to be found by aliens. It's a real eye-opener. It's a real eye-opener. It's a real eye-opener. Just like the video that you once gave us was about the time frame of the future, the time frame of the development of the universe. Yeah. Go check out that video too, the time lapse of the universe. It's about trillions and trillions and trillions of years. Trillions of years. Incredible. Yeah. And the universe is getting ever larger and ever darker and ever lonelier. Yes. Okay. This is loneliness as it is right now. Yes. And it's like, again, we are nothing but a mode of dust. So our lives mean absolutely nothing in the context of the cosmos. However, Juri, we still have a month to go. Bring back some cheer. Yeah. Some cheer. About the upcoming missions. The upcoming missions. Well, to be honest, I don't think I can bring back any cheer right now because everything's getting delayed. So I was looking at the launch manifest for the next month or so to see if there was anything cool or interesting going on in the next month. The Falcon Heavy that I mentioned. That's for Juri. That's for June. That's for June. Oh, you mean May. Yeah. So we're looking at May. And for May, the only thing that really seems interesting is the first launch of the set of Starlink satellites. Oh, yeah. So Starlink's going to be the global internet constellation from SpaceX. Okay. The one that's supposed to be bringing in money for the Mars mission. Exactly. And the plan is to launch in the end about 12,500 satellites. To create a global coverage of internet. It boggles the mind. It boggles the mind. With a latency of only 15 milliseconds. So you're gaming quick enough to game, to play video games with online gaming. Without becoming increasingly annoyed by lag. If I'm out in the desert in Africa, I want to be able to play Call of Duty. You should be able to play Counter-Strike. Fortnite. Exactly. It's going to be launched in the next weeks or so. I'm really interested because SpaceX has been so secretive about this constellation. So I'm really interested in seeing what these satellites can do. How effective they will be. Yeah. They got FCC approval also. So it's ready to go sort of, right? Yeah. And looking out a bit further, I'm really looking forward to Chandrayaan-2, the first lunar lander from India. Ah. I mean, after the ASTAT anti-satellite test from India, I was kind of ignoring them. But then I read up about Chandrayaan-2 and now I'm completely a fan of them again. And they'll be the fifth nation to put something on the moon. Yes. Because, well, Israel didn't manage, but it'll be an interesting because it's also going to be a rover. It was a hard landing, but okay. And I'm really looking forward, if we stay in Asia, to the return to flight of the Changsha-5 launcher from India, because that's going to be incredible. And that's going to be increasingly important for their future plans. The Changsha-5 is the big rocket from India. You said India, but it sounds like China. China. Yeah. Sorry. So China's heavy launch system. And with this launch system, they want to be able to launch Chang'e-5, the lunar lander, the lunar return mission for China. So it's going to bring back some lunar dust back to the Earth. And the first core parts of their new space station, Tianhe. Oh, yeah. Because they're also building their own space station. And the last launch of the Chang'e-5 failed. They're still working out some of the last kinks, but I hope that in the next two or three months, we'll see the first return to flight mission. And it's a spectacular rocket and it's a spectacular launch. So if they want to live stream it, if they're not too scared to live stream it, do check it out. Cool. Very cool. So stay tuned. I think Joeri, we're going to talk to you before this summer again. And so we'll see what all came of it. Sure. And that was it. That was it. For this week. That was another Space Cowboys podcast. Yeah, I think it's the longest one that we had so far. It's 107. And if we keep on talking, it's going to be 108. No, let's not do that. Thank you, Thijs. Thank you, Herbert. Thank you, Joeri. And thank you, Joeri, for keeping us updated. And yeah, we're going to hit that 108 because who are we going to have next week? Next week, we'll have Jeroen Rotterdam. Jeroen Rotterveil. Jeroen Rotterveil. Yes. Rotterveil. He is the founder of a company called Isis. Isis? It was called Isis before we had Isis. Before the other Isis. Yeah. We have to really ask him if he ever contemplated a name change. I know what he's going to say, but I'm not going to disclose that. His company does CubeSats. Okay, cool. So they manufacture CubeSats. They launch them. They manufacture them or have them launched. And they're specialized in that. So they can manufacture and launch CubeSats for you. And he can tell us what CubeSats can do. But basically, it's small stuff capable of doing almost anything. Awesome. Well, that and more next week. Next week in Space Cowboys podcast. Thank you, Joeri. See you then. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thijs, Joeri. Thank you, Herbert. And thanks to all our listeners. And see you next week. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.